38 thoughts on “So where are we now?”
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Pingback: The Best Proposed Solution to the UMC’s Stalemate
Could you please clarify what you mean by your last sentence: “I want to be a part of that, and I want to be a part of a church that is more focused on making disciples than on the culture wars.” Are you implying that biblically faithful teaching, practice and discipline in regard to sexuality and marriage are not an aspect of “making disciples” but part of the “culture wars?” One could read it that way.
No, I am saying that we are so focused on fighting that we are neglecting other work.
I myself told the 3 Pastors I served under 3 years ago, the solution is too split. I realize it’s not easy for clergy to walk away since the conference owns your property, your pension and basically your financial future. The denomination has always puzzled me what with a special book for theology, paying an apportionment to a central agency, millions spent on conferences that produce basically more decention than unity. Seems that the leaders are more concerned about the denomination than taking some real action. There is The confessional movement, which I have followed, however they have no plan to split or even move forward. What I have observed for the past 5 years is just what the original article we are commenting on does. Leaders of the UMC writing there opinions and nothing more. I left the UMC 2 years ago and one of the 3 Pastors I mentioned has done so recently. Kudos to that woman’s courage.
I think you may have a point. Even though there are strong beliefs on both sides, and almost no chance to come together, when it comes to splitting the church and actually dividing millions of dollars of property, things will really get ugly very quickly. I doubt that can get done. Rather, the church will just give up and learn to live with each other, crippled though it will be, as many of its evangelicals leave.
There seems to be a fear here of the UMC collapsing, with out any regard to Biblical doctrine. To continue with a crippled church to me seems like an act of heresy. What other word could be used. You cannot ignore this situation and and keep claiming the Holy Spirit’s leading. Of course it would be hard to split. Of course it would take years. To option to continue with a crippled body is pathetic.
David, you have again masterfully wrung the bell on the state of the church. And as you are wont to say, “I get it.” But what I don’t understand is the fantasy of a fractious church inexplicably and serendipitously deciding to set aside its theological differences and “with one heart and mind” devoting itself to making disciples (as if we agree on what that consists of). Why would one convert to a divided Christ? Why would one attend a double-minded church? Why would one sit still for a confused message? Are you imagining that the progressives are going to lay down their arms in response to such an appeal?
Gary, I think it would take a miracle for us to come together in one mind, but I believe in miracles, and I don’t want to rule out the possiblity.
As an Episcopal Church refugee I have a pretty good idea how this will play out. It will not be pretty. Any attempt to put in place a plan for property and pension division is immediately greeted as schismatic and promptly shouted down. We could go toward a Congregationalist model but that destroys the connection. Trying to paper over theological differences with some sort of polity solution leaves us crippled in our mission to make disciples for Christ. The train wreck continues.
Destroy what connection? Stop clinging to a term that no longer is relevant. The congregational model is the only real solution. Let a train wreck continue? I don’t agree with that conclusion. Seems that all are willingly to live with this and make the best. If that’s your solution and you are an Evangelical you are the problem not the liberal wing. Forget about the survival of the UMC and focus on Biblical doctrine. God will honor that. Move forward and let the trees fall in the forest!
John,
You may be correct in that the connection has been damaged beyond repair. When I referred to the train wreck I am taking the pessimistic approach that none of the proposed compromise solutions will work and the disobedient actions by our clergy will continue no matter what GC 2016 decides. After that the real fighting will begin. I am in a wait and see mode. After 2016 I will make a personal decision about whether or not I remain with The UMC. If we go to a Congregationalist model of governance I might be able to live with that. This means of course that my local church will no longer be required to comply with the guidance provided by our DS or Bishop unless we agree with them. That would include how much money we kick upline into the conference coffers. I am not as concerned with the survival of The UMC as an organized entity as I probably should be.